Knights Templar Discussion Forum

by **Templario** » Mon May 22, 2006 8:52 am

Some Templars got sent out to Europe well before the Council of Troyes; I already knew that...

by **Anonymous** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:26 am

But Officially the Order do not exist in 1125. What they have done in Europe?

by **Templario** » Tue May 23, 2006 9:15 am

Probably preparing the ground for Hugues de Payns's visit in 1127-1128; there is also some evidence that Andre de Montbard and Gundemar were also sent to Europe before 1127.

by **Anonymous** » Thu May 25, 2006 4:01 am

Templario wrote:Probably preparing the ground for Hugues de Payns's visit in 1127-1128; there is also some evidence that Andre de Montbard and Gundemar were also sent to Europe before 1127.

For what? And what happen with their stated mission to protect pilgrims in the Holy Land?

by **Templario** » Thu May 25, 2006 5:21 am

It is mentioned in a letter from King Baldwin II to St. Bernard. Andre and Gundemar were sent to St. Bernard with mission to obtain the approval of the Order from the Pope. There were probably enough Templars left in Jerusalem for the security of the roads. "They were nine at the beginning" is a myth...

by **Anonymous** » Thu May 25, 2006 5:41 am

Marion Melville notes that the original letter has vanished and Albon accepted letter as apocrypha. And interesting, prof. Melville says that Gondemar is spanish name!

by **Templario** » Thu May 25, 2006 7:34 am

Marion Melville notes that the original letter has vanished and Albon accepted letter as apocrypha.

The text of the letter has been printed in Henriquez's Cistercian records (Privilegia Ordinis Cisterciencis) and it is also recorded in Dupuy's Histoire de l'Ordre Militaire des Templiers and in Rohricht's Regesta. If the original document has disappeared, it doesn't prevent the letter to have been written by King Baldwin II. Tens of thousands of records have disappeared; what's important is that they have been recorded somewhere before they were destroyed.

by **Anonymous** » Thu May 25, 2006 8:17 am

Sorry,

I knew that the letter is mentioned only in Henriquez's work!

Thanks!

by **Templario** » Thu May 25, 2006 8:21 am

Glad to help!

by **Tandem Rider** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:01 am

Templario wrote:It is mentioned in a letter from King Baldwin II to St. Bernard. Andre and Gundemar were sent to St. Bernard with mission to obtain the approval of the Order from the Pope. There were probably enough Templars left in Jerusalem for the security of the roads. "They were nine at the beginning" is a myth...

But was it not true that The Nine petitioned Baldwin in Jerusalem? At that particular point there were 9 weren't there?

by **Templario** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:43 am

There is no trace of that petition... Hugues de Payns and Geoffroi de St. Omer are listed by William of Tyre (almost 100 years later); Andre de Montbard and Gundemar are listed on Baldwin II's 1926 letter; and then four additional Templars are listed on the text of the Council of Troyes in 1129. There is no document written around 1115-1120 that lists the nine founding Templars though.

by **Tandem Rider** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:49 am

Wondering what the reasons were to say there were nine

Or whether there were nine or not was even important. :?:

by **Templario** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:02 am

They must have been nine at the very beginning (during the 1115-1119 era); but when William of Tyre said that they remained nine for nine years, it's obviously incorrect...

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