Serbian Empire

[Anonymous]

Anyone who wants to discuss about Serbian medival Empire should ask or write smth.

[Templario]

Anyone who wants to discuss about Serbian medival Empire should ask or write smth.

Welcome to the forum Lord Aca!
Why don't you post something on that subject then?

[Anonymous]

There are lots of things to be said.
I can easily say that the Serbian Empire (1345-1371) was the greatest & strongest empire in Balkans, maybe even in great part of Europe.

[Bauceant]

I agree with Templario. Please do write something on the topic...I know very little about it (and would love the opportunity to learn more)

[Templario]

I can easily say that the Serbian Empire (1345-1371) was the greatest & strongest empire in Balkans, maybe even in great part of Europe.

Lord Aca, why do feel that way?

[Anonymous]

Lord Aca, why do feel that way?[/quote]


Cause it's true. I don't see why I shouldn't feel like that.

[Templario]

Please give us more details, like a two or three paragraph summary of the history of the Serbian Empire... or indicate to us a good web site.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, sure. There are something about Serbian history. but, you can just type Serbia or even better Srbija on google or yahoo, and see more about Serbia.

http://www.balkanhistory.com/
www.rastko.org.yu
http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lo ... igins.html
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historic ... urope.html
http://fotw.fivestarflags.com/index.html

[Bauceant]

Thank you....

[Templario]

Quite useful links! Thank you Lord Aca.

[Anonymous]

You could ask me if you wanted to know basics of Serbian Empire



P.S. Lord Aca: pozdrav srpski brate

[Templario]

blastmaster, who were the leaders of the Serbian Empire? Which European lineage did they come from?

[Anonymous]

There are lots of things to be said.
I can easily say that the Serbian Empire (1345-1371) was the greatest & strongest empire in Balkans, maybe even in great part of Europe.

This claim can be put to the test as is evidenced by the two following maps depicting the Eastern Roman Empire (aka Byzantium):

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/byzantine_empire_1265.jpg

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/byzantine_empire_1355.jpg

In 1265, we have the Eastern Roman Empire only just emerging from the 60 years rule of the Fourth Crusade (the Sack of Constantinople of 1204).

Already we see a border which runs headlong with the Kingdom of Serbia, the Kingdom of Bulgaria, various other duchies within mainland Greece and last but not least the Seljuk Turks pressing on the Eastern frontier. The fledgling Empire (ie. Byzantium) was not in a position to check and contest the rapid expansion of the Serbian Kingdom when it was just beginning to get back on its feet as well as having to contend with the Seljuk threat to the East.

In the second map, we see a much smaller, compact if you will, Roman Empire. Pontus (ie. the Kingdom of Trebizond) has been cut off from the Empire. The Empire has been reduced to its holdings based mainly in Thrace, Thessaloniki, Morea and a few isalnds in the northern Aegean. We see in this map also, a vastly expanded Serbian Kingdom which has come at the behest of traditionally Greek (cf. Eastern Roman) areas such as Epirus, Macedonia, Thessaly as well as Roumeli (central Greece). So what we have, in effect, is a situation in which a vacuum has presented itself and in which the Serbian Kingdom has been in a position to attack Eastern Roman territory (a Kingdom which received protection from Byzantium) thereby allowing it to amass all the territory evidenced in these maps supplied above.

A powerful Kingdom? Yes, if we only talk of that particular period. But certainly not the most powerful of all Europe. And only if we talk of the "Empire" as having attained a meteoric rise within the Balkans in a period where the Eastern Empire had been reduced to a sickly state. As far as can be logically surmised, the Serbian Kingdom could not have had any lasting cultural and social impact on the territories it seized, which had been part of the Eastern Roman Empire for well over a thousand years.

[Anonymous]

Serbian Empire didn’t last too long, so it had only two emperors, who were totally different. First was Stefan Uros IV Dusan (in English, it would be more precisely Stephan Urosh IV Dushan, but I will keep writing original names, as much as I know names are not supposed to be translated, right?), known as Dusan the Great or Dusan the Strong, and second was his son Stefan Uros V, known as Uros the Weak. Dusan’s father was Stefan Uros III, known as Stefan of Dechani, by the great monastery Dechani he had built). He was very honorable man. In the spring of 1330 Bulgaria and Byzantia made alliance and declared war to Serbia (there was no any special reason for that, they just wanted to conquer something). Bulgarians suffered crushing defeat at the place called Velbuzhd or smth like that. Their emperor was captured, so Byzantian emperor, who was marching through Macedonia, ran away. Stefan of Dechani didn’t want to take anything from his defeated enemies, so noblemen became very angry, and they helped his son, Dusan, to take the throne. Dusan blinded his father and imprisoned him. He built strong country, using French model: state split to a lot of noblemen with high titles, each of them had big power on his domain, but Dusan was absolute ruler. Difference from France was that Dusan had great power, and everybody was afraid of him, so no-one has ever tried anything against him. He got crown from Rome, because the pope, knowing the threat of Turks, was afraid of getting new enemy. One of Dusan’s life goals was to stop Islam before it comes to Europe. Rulers of all states on Balkan (except Bosnia, I think) were his vassals, so he asked the pope to let him lead the crusade against Turks, before it becomes too late. He wanted to request armies of all of his vassals, and to lead almost whole Serbian army, and wanted the pope to give him absolute control of western crusaders, he thought that combination of western heavy troops with eastern tactics and soldiers experienced against Turks could stop infidels. But the pope didn’t allow him because he wasn’t catholic. Big problem of all crusades were disorder and non-disciplined soldiers. Dusan was a man who wanted discipline, and he was known for his death punishments and limb cutting for every crime, so I’m pretty sure he could keep under control any western knight. After his death, his son was just like French kings: he kept Dusan’s system, but some noblemen became too powerful, so emperor didn’t have much influence on some of them (just like in France). Result of that was total disorder, which allowed the Turks to defeat whole army in only two battles: Marica 1371 and Kosovo 1389.

As for their lineage, it was pure Serbian. Name of their family was Nemanjic ( ‘nj’ is something like ‘nh’ in Ronaldinho, and ‘c’ is like English ‘ch’, but much softer). Founder of that family, which had ruled Serbia for more than 200 years, was Stefan Nemanja. His father, Zavida, was cousin of rulers of both Zeta and Raska, first Serbian states. When Nemanja became ruler (his title was zhupan, ‘zh’ is like French ‘j’), he united both Zeta and Raska and that’s how Serbia was born. There’s interesting story about that, but I can’t confirm that it’s totally true. In that time, Byzantia was still powerful, so Stefan Nemanja lost a battle, and he was captured. That part is the fact. This is second part: when he was imprisoned in Constantinople, Byzantian emperor, knowing how much is personal honor important to every nobleman, told him that he will give independence to Serbia, if Nemanja allows him to ride him in the center of Constantinople. Of course, he expected rejection, but Nemanja accepted that because he has been fighting for independence so long, and he was ready to do anything for his people.

Serbian Empire was the most powerful on Balkan, it was actually almost half of Balkan, it certainly wasn’t the most powerful in Europe, but it *was* one of the most powerful. Reason why it never became larger is that Hungary was on the north, and war would them would be endless, and Bosnians were brothers of Serbia; Byzantia had only Constantinople and nearby area, but it was the most powerful fortification in the world, and long-lasted peace was made with Bulgarians, so there was nothing else to conquer, except maybe few duchies in today Greece. And fear of the pope is a good proof of it’s power. Besides strong armies, another power was absolute power of emperor and fear of the punishment is his orders are not obeyed.

And it actually had great cultural influence on it’s territories. For example, many of Greek monasteries were built by Serbs. And look at Bulgaria, they came on Balkan as Turkish tribe, and no they are more Slavs than Turks. Even than, in time of Turkish conquest of Balkan, Bulgarians were same like Slavs. Same was with Macedonia, which had been under Byzantia for centuries.

[Templario]

The house of Nemanjic was in power since the end of the 12th century, wasn't it?