Raynald de Chatillon

[PotterNo1]

Just something I'm confused about...


Who exactly was Raynald de Chatillon?
I recently saw Kingdom of Heaven and in the film Raynald (who appears to be the identical twin of Haymish from Braveheart ) leads the Templars.
I had assumed from this that he was the grand master of the order....then I realised that he couldn't be because the then grand master was Gerard de Ridefort.

I have looked at a few biographies of Raynald and it doesn't seem to mention his involvement with the Templars at all.
It mentions that he attacked a Muslim convoy of caravans as he does in the film, but in the film he does it aided by the Templars and dressed as a Templar. (The Templars were hanged for this)

Was he a Templar commander or has the film got this mixed up?

[Dashinvaine (GN)]

Reynald de Chatillon was a French adventurer who came to the kingdom of Jerusalem and gained power by marrying successively two rich widows, making him master of Antioch and Kerak. He was not a Templar but he was an ally of the Order's, and did fight along side them and conduct raids with them. Apart his from not beng a Templar, the depiction of him in Kingdom of Heaven is quite accurate, inclding the scene where Saladin executes him in his tent after the battle of Hattin.

He was a bit mad. 16 years in a muslim dungeon probably didn't help.

[PotterNo1]

Thanks for clearing that up Dash

[Dashinvaine (GN)]

No problem. Reynald was big trouble. He should have been executed by Baldwin, or even earlier by Manuel I. You know in the film how he went on his knees before Baldwin after being convicte for raiding? In real life he had to similarly humble himself before the Byzantine Emperor Manuel I, in penance for raiding the Christian island of Cyprus and committing brutal acts there. Manual I brought his army to Antioch and received Reynald's submission. It would have been better if he had killed him. (Manuel should also have killed Andronicus while he had a chance, too, Andronicus and Reynald were much alike, but that's another story).

[Templario]

Even if he was ruthless, Raynald de Chatillon was a Christian and an important vassal of the king of Jerusalem. No Christian king would have killed him for what he did. The worse thing that could have happened to him would have been to lose his land and be sent back to Europe.

[Dashinvaine (GN)]

I don't know, Reynald didn't have Baldwin iii's permission to raid Cyprus,and he had abused and terrorized the Latin Patriarch of Antioch in order to extract funds for the raid. Reynald chained the priest up outside, smeared in honey and left him all day at the mercy of swarms of flies, until the Patriarch promised to release the moneys. On Cyprus de Chatillon and his men killed and mutilated christians, raped women including nuns, and cut off the noses of priests.

Baldwin was almost as furious over all this as Manuel was. No one in the Kingdom of Jerusalem would have protested too much if Manuel had executed the crazy Reynald, the Emperor would have been well within his rights to. Reynald had proved himself an absolute villain.

[PotterNo1]

Reynald sounds like trouble...but in the film it was the Templars who were hanged for the raids while he lived and went largely unpunished.
Did this happen in real life too?

[Dashinvaine (GN)]

I don't think the Templars were ever hanged for this reason, or that they were so involved in Reynald's later raids. The nearest thing was when Amalric I imprisoned a Templar for killing a Nisari Ismaili (Assassin) ambassador. Amalric also hanges some templars on another occasion for surrendering a fortified cave without permission.

[Templario]

Did this happen in real life too?

Yes, it did. King Amalric had a few Templars hanged for disobeying to him.

Reynald had proved himself an absolute villain.

Not every chronicler of the Middle Ages has said that Reynald of Chatillon was a villain. In fact your countryman, William of Newburgh, said that he was a very Christian and brave prince!

[Dashinvaine (GN)]

William of Tyre said that Reynald 'broke into monasteries of men and women alike and shamefully abused nuns and tender maidens.' The loss of gold and precious vestiments was nothing compared to 'the violence done against chastity'.

Reynald de Chatillon was indeed brave enough in battle, but the battles would not have been necessary but for the provocation he gave the Muslims.

Saladin captured Reynald at Hattin. After the battle the Sultan confronted Reynald with his crimes and listed his acts of barbarism (including his raid down the red sea against Muslim pilgrims in 1185). Reynald responded 'But this in truth is the custom of kings, and I have only followed the beaten path.' Saladin executed him, and then turned to king Guy (also a captive) and said that one king does not kill another. ( Z. Oldenbourg 'The Crusades, p. 416).

[PotterNo1]

I've read about the surrender of a strategic cave unnecessarily.
Is this an isolated incident or are there many records of Templars "slacking"?
Something odd which I also read was that a supposedly invincible templar castle, or at least one which was built to stand up to a mighty seige (it may have been La Forbie but I'm not sure) was captured in under a week by Saracens.
How does a massive defencive castle manned by probably 700 or so knights and more soldiers fall in a few days?
Surely something isn't right there...either the Templars weren't ready, the castle was empty at the time or the Muslims had a minor miricle a la Joshua at the seige of Jericho!

[Templario]

Most of the time, garrisons were too small.

[ktlon]

Reynald chained the priest up outside, smeared in honey and left him all day at the mercy of swarms of flies, until the Patriarch promised to release the moneys.

I thought it was Guy that did that.

[Anonymous]

Well,Baldwin IV may have hanged some Templars as well,seeing how he wanted to keep the peace betwen Kingdom of Jerusalem and Saladin's Saracen hordes.But its true that Almaric I hanged Templars for surrendering without premission...

Reynald de Chatillon was as insane as they come lol but a couple of years in the muslim dugeon had a tendency to drive a person insane.And yes I agree while Reynald was very brave in battle,those battles would never have happened if he didnt provoke them lol its you know damned him for doing it lol

[Dashinvaine (GN)]

Reynald chained the priest up outside, smeared in honey and left him all day at the mercy of swarms of flies, until the Patriarch promised to release the moneys.

I thought it was Guy that did that.

It was Reynald. I don't think Guy was really the type to do that sort of thing, however he is portrayed in KoH. Although he was no saint either.