templars in america

[Templario]

There are at least a couple of books that mention plantation of maize (and not corn) in the Old World:

The Old Roman World, by John Lord

The Antediluvian World, by Ignatius Donnelly

[Anonymous]

There are at least a couple of books that mention plantation of maize (and not corn) in the Old World:

The Old Roman World, by John Lord

The Antediluvian World, by Ignatius Donnelly

You mean, the "original" Atlantis book? That is one heck of a source!

When John Lord says that "the plains of Lombardy furnished maize and rice" it is cute and all, but not enought to convince me. I am merely asking for a piece of text written by an ancient author whence it can be clearly demonstrated that maize was known in Europe prior to Columbus.

[Templario]

I am merely asking for a piece of text written by an ancient author whence it can be clearly demonstrated that maize was known in Europe prior to Columbus.

Desidiosus,

All I am saying is that seeing Mexico as the only "origin" or maize doesn't satisfy me. We should be more careful regarding the subject of its origin and accept "modern" theories with a more cautious attitude. You wanted an ancient source. Here is one:

http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/herodotus_egypt02.htm

[Anonymous]

All I am saying is that seeing Mexico as the only "origin" or maize doesn't satisfy me. We should be more careful regarding the subject of its origin and accept "modern" theories with a more cautious attitude. You wanted an ancient source. Here is one:

http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/herodotus_egypt02.htm

Of course, we must be careful! I don't care for any theories, modern, "modern" or otherwise if they are not based on factual evidence.

The word olyra in Herodotus does not mean anything remotely resembling maize in any of my dictionaries. And I have pretty darn good dictionaries. They say it is rather a kind of wheat. And it could be gummy bear candy, for all I care. There is no evidence in the text about the nature of olyra.

[Templario]

The word olyra in Herodotus does not mean anything remotely resembling maize in any of my dictionaries. And I have pretty darn good dictionaries.

I don't see the word "olyra" you are referring to; unless it's in the Greek version of the text; the corresponding Greek sentence is "de ek tôn olureôn poieuntes artous, tous ekeinoi kullêstis onomazousi"... (are you referring to "olureon"?)

Of course, as long as we don't see a picture of what "kyllestis" was, it could be wheat, spelt, oat, or whatever else!... but I guess Macaullay (who is not an amateur translator...) had some reasons for translating the Greek word as "maize"....

[the_historian]

forget it

[Anonymous]

I don't see the word "olyra" you are referring to.

Yeah, 'cause that would be in the Greek text I am looking at.

Of course, as long as we don't see a picture of what it was, it could be wheat, spelt, oat, or whatever else!... but I guess Macaullay had some reasons for translating it as "maize".

One could easily describe maize in just one sentence to give a very clear idea of what it is. Whatever reasons Macaullay had they don't seem good enough to grant us an image of vast Egyptian plains where Indian corn was cultivated. My guess is that Macaullay's reasons were sufficiently silly.

So, once again, no textual evidence of pre-Columbian maize has surfaced. I am not saying it did not exist. Denying it's existance is simply a safer option at this moment.

[Templario]

forget it

I think I will!

[Vortex]

Ugh...all this sweet corn/corn nonsense at Rosslyn...

Lets actually look closely at the carving and the entire window bay, and not just one small section, and put aside what's been written by Lomas and Knight all the other copy cats on the websites and actually look at and talk about what's there.

A) If it is corn, why are the cobs pointing downwards and why does one cob fit into the other? Why are the sections segmented?

B) The only kernels are located at the angular edges and it’s more of a relief detail than anything else. Why aren't there more kernels represented? Were these cuts added to give a dimensional look to the plant?

C) If you look at the apex of the two so-called corn rows, you'll notice that at the top where these elements meet is a flower that looks like a humming bird feeder fake flower. Is this the top of the plant? If it is, its not corn, its not tassled.

D) Horsetail and water horsetail is common throughout the glen and area, and if you look at images of horsetail you'll notice that it's a segmented plant that has kernel like seeds on the top and the shaft peices have ribs on them, like the carving does with leaf extensions at the joints. This image of horsetail matches closer that of corn.

D) There is ZERO factual evidence that William went to America and met with indians...ZERO. If you've read Pohl's work on this trip and swallowed Lomas and Knights work, and Wallace-Murphy's work on this, you might want to read another take on the trip by Brian Smith to cast light on the folly of this recycled myth and see the other side of the coin. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ahamilton/sinclair.htm

E) Corn/Maize/sweet corn...if you read this article you'll see the phrase "...most indian tribes commonly grew maize of one kind or another execpt sweet corn. The sugary character in maize doubtless occurred in innumerable times as a mutation, but many Indian tribes either disliked it and threw it away or had trouble in perpetuating it. It is harder to produce and preserve the seed of sweet corn than that of other forms."
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/PLAN ... /corn.html

F) If it was part of a new world discovery? Why is this the only marker and why hide it away just above one window, and not as a center piece? This new world discovery would have been huge. Where are other markers? And please don't say there's Aloe carved in the chapel. Aloe is native to North Africa and was used by the greeks, persians, and sumerians...there's elephants and other items from africa carved in the chapel. Aloe would have been known at this time.

G) Why do you want to believe it's corn? Do you really see that or are you seeing it through rose colored glasses and taking some authors word for it when he has nothing solid to back up this claim?

H) Tell us why its corn. There's more against this being corn than there is for it being corn.