Orders of St. JAmes of the Sword and Order of SAntiago

[indianajoanne]

I'm sorry if this sounds like an incredibly silly and ignorant question, but were the orders of St JAmes of the Sword and the Ordr of SAntiago related? "SAntiago" is another name for "JAmes" in Spanish, I thought. WAsn't it St. JAmes who fought against the Moors? ERgo, are ST JAmes and SAntiago the same person?

The Order of SAntiago was in Portugal and the Order of ST JAmes in Britain, but didn't the members of the orders make pilgrimages to SAntiago and Roselyn Chapel?

warmth

indy

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry if this sounds like an incredibly silly and ignorant question, but were the orders of St JAmes of the Sword and the Ordr of SAntiago related? "SAntiago" is another name for "JAmes" in Spanish, I thought. WAsn't it St. JAmes who fought against the Moors? ERgo, are ST JAmes and SAntiago the same person?

The Order of SAntiago was in Portugal and the Order of ST JAmes in Britain, but didn't the members of the orders make pilgrimages to SAntiago and Roselyn Chapel?

warmth

indy

Hi Indy,

The Order of Santiago certainly held property in England at the height of their powers (as well as in France, Palestine, Italy, etc). Given that their symbol was a red cruciform sword (the cross espada), it is highly likely that the Order of St James of the Sword was the name used for them in their English property, as I can find no reference to any separate English Order of that name-but I may be wrong.

In Portugal the Order did have a breakaway group-the Order of Sao Tiago, who grew out of the Order of Santiago sometime in mid to late 13th century.

If I can dig out any more info I'll post it here for you.

[Dashinvaine (GN)]

There is some more about the order here:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy ... esrev.html

[indianajoanne]

Thanks so much Chris and Dashinvaine. The link was really informative.

Incidently, the link says that those became Knights as some point were asked to lead chaste lives, even though who were married. So another stupid question, can monks be married? These knights were not monks, like the Templars, correct?

warmth and many thanks,

indy

[Dashinvaine (GN)]

Clearly not, the Spanish Orders seem to have been a bit more relaxed about that. The Order of Calatrava also permitted married knights, and seems to have regarded their wives as members of the Order. I don't believe they even expected celibacy among them (though non-celibate members had a lower status).

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much Chris and Dashinvaine. The link was really informative.

Incidently, the link says that those became Knights as some point were asked to lead chaste lives, even though who were married. So another stupid question, can monks be married? These knights were not monks, like the Templars, correct?

warmth and many thanks,

indy

Hi Indy,

The Knights of Santiago were indeed allowed to marry, and also to retain their personal possessions, and even include their personal heraldry on their shields etc. However, on a Brother knight's death his property went to the Order, but the Order then became responsible for any surviving family.

However, by the late 13th century the Spanish monarchy were having an increasing say in who could be elected to senior positions within the Order, and from the late 15th century on the Mastership of the Order became invested in the Crown.

[Dom Gil Martins]

More information about the Knights Santiago (Portuguese branch). Some pics about their HQ and major stronghold in Portugal - The Castle and Monastery of Palmela. (Today a 5 star hotel or parador)

Aerial view od the complex:




Main tower:


Church of Santiago:

[indianajoanne]

I have no idea if I am duplicating my message. I was just apologizing for blond/technical difficulties, when one happened (I apologize to my fellow blonds who may blame me for the stereotype. Now You know...)

Thanks Chris for the cool pics. If any of You are interested, I have a bunch of pics from SAntiago de Compostela and ,as I was saying, ahem, if I get over these technical problems figuring out how to scan them, then I can proceed to also scanning pics of the CAthedral in BArcelona which depicts the "Templar Cross", as I call it, on its pews.

With tremendous gratitude for all the info, once again, DAshinvaine, Chris and and everyone I fail to mention. I'll do my best to figure out scanning and sharing the little bits I have to offer in return.

Gosh, I feel like "Dona" Quixote.



Then gain, I have surreal looking-pictures of modern day windmills in La MAncha....

Okay, okay...I'll skip that part.....


HAppy HAlloween!!!

warmth ,
indy